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Talk:Machine Guns (VC2)
Can someone with the artbook find pictures for the weapons? Thanks. Person1 23:47, July 3, 2010 (UTC) I'd jus like to say this is a great page - well done guys! There are already pictures of weapons in the new pictures bit. Half of them haven't been used yet.Clarity92 13:29, August 5, 2010 (UTC) Submachine gun vs. Assault rifle classification What are these weapons? The only one which is pretty much unquestionable is the Ruhm, Light/Medium Machine gun. So our primary focus shall be on the Mags series and the Zechmeister MP series. I'll side with them being submachine guns ''rather than ''assault rifles. There is no indication of select fire modes for one. The Mags does have a lever above the trigger on the left hand side, primarily it seems to be activated by a right handed user's thumb, but as to whether it has only safe and fire or safe, followed either by automatic or full-automatic and then the other is not apparent. The Zechmeister on the other hand has no apparent fire selector or even safety for that matter, although it possibly has a physical safety similar to what the MP40 does which can be seen in the second picture. That recess for the bolt handle is its safety. Another reason is the size of the ejection ports. The weapon needs to be able to extract the full cartridge and not just the case. Okay I'll admit I went a little overboard here by doing this, but using the base model of both series because that was the one I could get an accurate measurement for scale I ended up with roughly 1/4.88 for the ZM MP and 1/4.47 for the Mags. Mind you this is just my attempt at measuring so anyone ambitious (or bored) enough to try might find comparable or different results. Had there been a canonical "chambering" then I'd have left it at that, but all there is is a "calibre" which isn't the same thing. that I measured from the tip of the muzzle to the end of the stock for the scale and discounted the pistol grips in the length measurement *We'll start with the Zechmeister base model. The ejection port was 7mm with maximum measure at 1/4.88 scale which ends up at 34.2mm at 1:1 scale. That limits the size of the entire cartridge for ejection so it's limited to a pistol sized cartridge. *The Mags base model had an ejection port length of 10mm at 1/4.47 scale based on my measurement with 44.7mm at 1:1 scale. That one is borderline as to whether it is an intermediate or a pistol cartridge as both could reasonably fit. Tell you the truth it shocked me, but it does help to explain why the Mags series has greater effective range than the ZM MP series. Next is the sights. Some submachine guns do have adjustable sights so that can't be used as classification of either type. Speaking of range however, submachine guns would have extremely ''short range while what would be termed as an assault rifle has much greater range, but that pales in comparison to a full-sized rifle. I'm hoping someone has some input and/or a counter-argument so that way there can be an open discussion between a good number of folk before anyone unilaterally changes anything to a major degree on the Military Machine Gun page.TikkaT3Fanatic 05:22, October 15, 2010 (UTC) * I think the most obvious issue I have with calling them SMGs is the length versus width of the magazines; an SMG ''has to fire a pistol cartridge, but compare the length-to-width of the MG magazine to, say, the magazine of an MP5; it's clearly something much longer than a 9x19mm para in there. You're right in saying they look to be fullauto-only rather than select-fire like a true AR, but they seem closer to assault rifles than they are to submachine guns in terms of the ammunition they fire. Regarding range, it's obviously rock-paper-scissors; even weapons that clearly are machine guns on the tanks are barely effective beyond SMG range (Edelweiss' 50 cal in particular has comically short range for such a weapon, which should be accurate most of the way across a given map). The reason I said the "extremely short range" would classify them as assault rifles is as as opposed to classifying them as machine guns, not necessarily that it is right for assault rifles to be so short ranged; obviously, the VC machine guns would have trouble being classified as pistols if we were going on accuracy alone. They seem to be some sort of bizarre "submachine carbine" that's neither a true assault rifle (like you said, they're not selective fire and too short ranged) or a true SMG (magazines imply the cartridges are much too large). Evil Tim 06:49, October 15, 2010 (UTC) I think their inaccuracy while firing is simply a balancing system in gameplay because if the had similar or comparable accuracy to say the Gallian series or ZM Kar no one would use the scout class anymore. But based in a more reality standpoint maybe the manufacturers simply didn't rifle the barrels to speed-up production.Fallschirmjager 15:24, October 15, 2010 (UTC)Fallshirmjager Trivia Sections Should we combine the various trivia sections into one section at the end of the article, or leave it as is? Person1 03:10, January 5, 2011 (UTC) :I think we should combine them. Arciusazrael 08:56, February 8, 2011 (UTC) ::Now, I'm not so sure. There are so many type of guns now, combining them could be confusing to the readers.[http://valkyria.wikia.com/wiki/User:Arciusazrael |Arcius|] 17:53, March 5, 2011 (UTC) Ruhm I'm not sure if engineers can use the Ruhm, but I know it counts as a machine gun and a rifle, so I think they can. So it's both a machine gun and a rifle? Should we list it in the Rifles article? [http://valkyria.wikia.com/wiki/User:Arciusazrael |Arcius|] 17:53, March 5, 2011 (UTC) ::nvm, it's already been done. [http://valkyria.wikia.com/wiki/User:Arciusazrael |Arcius|] 06:03, March 6, 2011 (UTC) ::Ruhm is strictly for gameplay purposes a machinegun, as it is one of these in both VC and VCIII, it is only a machinegun for scouts when selvaria has in VC, this is porbally just to allow selvaria to have good mobility. Another thing is bosses in VC are either tanks, or when they are foot soldiers, they are always classed as scouts (Yes, maximillian valkyria is a scout) Baldren - Muspell or Idun? Actually. I start to think... if my memory's still clear, his ranged weapon... he attacks in manner of troopers, not gunners. And the range of his weapon... is unusually great, like Idun SP... I think I'll fight him and check his weapon; Muspell or Idun? 13:04, September 10, 2011 (UTC) : We can't tell which weapon is it by the way it fires as, as far as I'm remember, Baldren only uses the gun for interception fire, which is always a straight line. The mesh of his weapon is exactly the same as a Muspell gun, but it has a long range and 20 shots just like the Idun SP. I think it's neither of them but a separate weapon. 13:43, September 10, 2011 (UTC) : Notice how the 2 baldren weapons have a B in their name, this is because they are the ones that super (red) baldren uses, it would make sense that the normal, story mission ones are either the A or simply just Idun SP and Valholl SP, or possibly even Idu and Valholl.Roebot56 13:57, September 10, 2011 (UTC) ::But do you have a confirmed source for that? Besides, the 'B' doesn't mean anything, we have Lancaar-E but that doesn't mean there are Lancaar A, B, C ,D. Roebot, The problem here is everything we write here should not be something we guess or think. It should have a reference somewhere in the games, interviews, artbooks, etc. =) 14:07, September 10, 2011 (UTC)